Advertising, commercial: sales [at] road.cc The 2019 model comes in the blue/red color scheme of our test bike (looks more like teal/red-orange) and also a grey/blue design. ins.dataset.adChannel = cid; Great versatility of use, carbon fiber frame and reasonable price. BikeRide is reader-supported, and sometimes we receive commissions for links you click on. Read on for my review. The Jenas large, shaped tubes certainly dont offer visual hints of a lightweight bike, but Wilier Triestina reports that a size medium painted frame weighs just 995 grams, with a companion fork tipping the scales at 450 grams. and the 28mm Vittoria tubs smoothed out broken surfaces superbly. Sign in to manage your newsletter preferences. Shift/Brake Levers: Shimano Ultegra R8070 STI hydraulic disc Di2 Thanks to a sloping, kinked top tube and relatively low bottom bracket (7.5cm drop), standover clearance is generous. Its the part selection that left me longing for some upgrades. container.style.width = '100%'; If youve enjoyed this article, then please consider subscribing to road.cc from as little as 1.99. At one point a rider behind me was concerned when I shimmied after hitting a small but quite deep hole on a quickish, hairpinned descent, but the bike let me regain control immediately to the great relief of the rider on my tail. var ins = document.createElement('ins'); Frankly, Id always prefer a smaller bailout option. Without the heavy wheels, the package weighs a respectable 11.2 pounds (a CXM trademark measurement for wheel swappers). Works a treat. Crucially, however, what Wilier was trying to achieve with the ZeroSLR was a greater stiffness-to-weight ratio and this bike is 24 percent stiffer than the Zero.6. On Shimano GRX builds, the short-cage rear derailleur limited the Jenas gear range. Find bikes that match your geometry criteria. Is the Italian brands unique-looking gravel bike the right choice for your next escape from your desk and the masses? var cid = '4138889550'; Tires: CST Pika, wire bead, non-tubeless Fucks sakes. The $3k Fuji Jari 1.1, in comparison, forgoes electronic shifting but adds a clutch RX800 rear derailleur, WTB i23 tubeless wheels and Panaracer GravelKing tires, all for $2,500 less. ins.dataset.fullWidthResponsive = 'true'; 44mm is the stated max. 
The test bike came with an uncut steerer, allowing for an even more upright position if the generous head tube doesnt put you in a comfortable position. The super-smooth bottom bracket shell houses a press-fit bottom bracket. Our size large Jena paired relatively short chainstays (42.3cm) with relatively standard angles (71.5 head angle, 73.1 seat angle) and a tall head tube (17.5cm). The bike is advertised to have clearance for 700c x 44mm tires or 1.95 wide tires in the 650b/27.5 diameter. Swap to high-quality tubeless tires and wheels and the ride comes alive. Briefly, it was my intended ride for the Lost and Found race. The Wilier Triestina Jena carbon gravel bike features internal routing for wires, cables and hoses in the frame and fork. Surprisingly, theyre not tubeless-ready. The ZeroSLR monocoque frame is made from, wait for it, a secret recipe of carbon fibre that Wilier-Triestina claims is superior to any carbon it has previously used. So far, things are very positive indeed, although this is in no way a full review. Ritchey ErgoMax bars made the bike sit too tall for some reviewers. The heavy non-tubeless wheels, and wire bead non-tubeless CST tires on our test bike also feel like an unwelcomed area of cost-cutting just to hit a price point. You must TAKE THE SHOT! The ZeroSLRs asymmetric chainstays, dropped seatstays and Giant D-Fuse-like seatpost profile. Myriad mounts ensure room for luggage, bottles and fenders. The frame weighs 780g, the fork 340g and the one-piece Zero handlebar and stem another 330g. Ready for adventure? While the Shimano Ultegra Di2 drivetrain didnt miss a shift, I still missed shifts at the low end of the gear range. Measurements are in millimeters and degrees. 2000 to 2400 is a 20% increase, pretty big I'd say. looks a tad staged to me but still funny. 2022 Crusher in the Tushar Race Results: Smith and Swenson Climb to Victory, UCI Cyclocross Series USCX Returns to North America, 2022 Grinduro California Results: Cyclocrossers Crush New Mt. For a brief period, I did exactly that, with a Redshift Sports 100mm ShockStop stem. You wont be shown this message again :). The frame itself checks most of the boxes of what we look for in a gravel bike, and it can also pull duty as a road, cyclocross or bikepacking bike while not looking like a cookie-cutter open mold machine. Its not that easy. Get a Snycros iS Couple bottle cage when you subscribe to Mountain Biking UK today! This rig was versatile, being either an aggressive racer or bikepacker. Thanks! One is based on SRAM Rival 1, two on Shimano 105 and three on Shimano Ultegra (one Di2, two mechanical). The new ZeroSLR fork and chainstays are asymmetrical, something Wilier pioneered more than a decade ago in order to cope with the extra forces created by disc brakes. lo.observe(document.getElementById(slotId + '-asloaded'), { attributes: true }); The Wilier Triestina Jena carbon gravel bike comes in five sizes and six builds. The Wilier Triestina Jena carbon gravel bike has quite a bit of standover clearance. First impressions are that the Wilier is aresponsive and efficient racebike that just loves to be ridden fast. So not only do they not get a deserved medal, they have to pay the twats at the UCI 172 eachbecause they, rightly, performed a small Editorial, general: info [at] road.cc Its indisputably lightweight, with a 2.2lb frame and 1lb fork. The Wilier Triestina Jena carbon gravel bike. That's the top-level model in the range (a version with a SRAM Force eTap AXS groupset is the same price). You still have a chance of avoiding tire spin or sliding out on loose dirt and gravel. Thats a positive attribute if the reach to the bars fits and you ride long, straight gravel or dirt roads. Consider a donation to support CXM. With the bike braked in the continental rather than British way, and some of the roads poorly surfaced, I didnt attack the descents full-bore, which will have to wait for a full test back home. Thin, flat seatstays allow flex and absorb vibrations. Another neat and elegant solution are the wheels, which Wilier is now making for the first time, in conjunction with Miche, also based in northern Italy. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Internally-routed cabling keeps a stylish frame neat. ins.style.height = container.attributes.ezah.value + 'px'; Regarding the build, the Ultegra Di2 drivetrain is the shining star. The package rolled on Shimanos RS170 disc wheels. SUMMER SALE | Try 3 issues of Cycling Plus magazine for 5 + Get a pair of Lusso cycling socks! Hes been testing bikes and working for BikeRadar and Cycling Plus in various capacities for two decades. Theres also a good chance it will meet your needs because it comes in five different frame sizes, spanning a range in reach from 363mm to 401mm.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'cxmagazine_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_2',113,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-cxmagazine_com-medrectangle-4-0')}; The Wilier Triestina Jena carbon gravel bike has room for a bottle mount on each fork leg, with a lowrider rack option. It arrives with a 3842 low gear, Mavic Allroad tubeless wheels and Yksion XL 40mm tubeless tires and should be more ready for more rugged adventure out of the box. To use the excellent 11-34t 11-speed cassette from Shimano, you need a GS (medium cage) derailleur. Obviously. The Wilier Triestina Jena carbon gravel bike pairs a long stem with a generous head tube length and riser drop bar. In summary, this is what cyclists think. Handlebar: Ritchey Ergomax Comp Super-light, disc-braked racer with maximum integration and Italian brio and flair. It was hard to fault my test bike apart from the price. Yes they are,and it hasa better parcours than Poland. The supplied Ritchey Comp stem, at 120mm long, felt and looked decidedly old-school in this day and age, while the swoopy bar felt quite modern. 
Join our team and make a difference in the sport. In spite of the bikes aero qualities tube profiles, slightly ovalised handlebar tops the ZeroSLRs comfort was also excellent; 28mm tubular tyres will do that. Some will love and some will hate the Ritchey Ergomax bar. Seat Post: Ritchey Comp 2, 27.2mm A. Yee / Cyclocross Magazine. The rise, paired with the generous head tube length (17.5cm, size Large) offers plenty of room for an upright, see-the-sights position, especially once you reign in the stem length. The end result created a configuration with a 391mm reach and 608mm stack. We've got 11,000+ bikes in the comparison database. Ritchey ErgoMax bars offered a variety of stances and an aggressive feel. The geometry is on the aggressive side withquicksteering, making the Wilier a blast in the corners, especially as the frame and fork manageto soak up a fair bit of road vibration, giving a composed and confident feel when you are travelling at speed. Time to reconsider. The brakes, as youd expect from Shimano Dura-Ace hydraulics, were equally without issue. More info: wilier.com, Enjoying our comprehensive coverage of every title race? The Jena has both covered. Simon Withers is a freelance cycling writer and bike tester. A. Yee / Cyclocross Magazine. Neat. Impressum. The quick, light action shifting swaps gears with predictable speed regardless of your energy level and is configurable with different shift modes. ins.style.width = '100%'; Privacy Policy and BikeRide works hard to help you find the lowest prices and information on each bike from the widest possible range of sources. Front Derailleur: Shimano Ultegra FD-R8050 Were committed to making sure that the cost of a bike does not keep you from cycling! If you like road.cc, but you dont like ads, please consider subscribing to the site to support us directly. The production bikes all come with 25mm Vittoria Corsa tyres, either tubs or clinchers depending on model. Ive only had the Cento10SL for a few days but, thanks to the bright sunshine and warm temperatures weve been experiencing here in the south-west, it hasnt been an issue to get out and get some early miles in. Without big side knobs or mud, I suspect you could get away with even bigger. Yes, I remember days when 120mm stems were the norm on a 57cm bike, but paired with todays geometry and reach numbers that were used to, the steering feels noticeably slow. Wilier have created one of the better all-round bikes available on the market today. The Wilier Triestina Jena carbon gravel bike has lots of clearance around a 38mm tire. The Jena frame, geometry and ride quality offer versatility and compatibility with todays high-volume tires, electronic drivetrains and riding styles. The fork and frame have Mavics excellent, easy-to-use Speed Release system that you cant overtighten. The monocoque Zero handlebar gives the ZeroSLR an exceptionally clean-looking front end. Simon didnt stop for a glass of wine at the local vineyard even if he did drop off the back of the peloton. The disc clincher wheels are 105-level components and are quite heavy at just under 2,100 grams. Made in Scotland. The Wilier ZeroSLR is also available in Admiral Blue. Simon has ridden and reviewed countless bikes and products, and specialises in affordable road bikes, gravel bikes and cycling kit, helping riders understand whats really worth their hard-earned money. Part 1, Ridden and Reviewed: Evil Bikes Chamois Hagar Gravel Bike, Ridden and Reviewed: 2022 Cannondale Supersix EVO CX, Pro Bike Profile: 2022 World Champion Tom Pidcocks Pinarello Crossista F Cyclocross Bike, Q & A with the Fayetteville Cyclocross Worlds Promoters, Lee Waldman: Gifts and Resetting After the Season, Rebecca Gross: How Stress Can Help You Grow, Lee Waldman: Off the Trainer and Into the Snow, Cyclocross Apprenticeship: Wrapping Up the Season with a Giant Final Barrier, Video: Bull Takes Out Racers at 2022 Rock Cobbler Gravel Race, Cyclocross Worlds in Photos: A Jeff Corcoran Gallery, 2022 UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships Highlights: Junior Men, Throwback Thursday: Bart Wellens Infamous One-Legged Maneuver in Overijse, Give Transportation to Someone in Need with #BikeMatch, Gravel Star Moriah Wilson Found Dead in Austin, Texas, First Annual Laurence Malone Memorial Ride on May 15, Sea Otter Classic 2022: New Products That Caught Our Eye. Rotors: Shimano Ice Tech Freeza, 160mm The fork has also been widened for improved aerodynamics. It does most things you throw at it well, 1996 - 2022 bikeride.com Elite CafeMedia Publisher. Again. Knee-jerk reactions are kind of the job description of a pundit. We have read all expert and user reviews on the Wilier Triestina Jena. He has been cycling for as long as he can remember, and more seriously since his time at university in the 1980s. Speaking of speed, that is what the Cento10SL is all about. Find another? You've been subscribed to our newsletter. Wiliers ZeroSLR, especially in its striking Velvet Red livery, looks fantastic. Wilier uses 12mm Mavic Speed Release thru-axles on the ZeroSLRs frame and fork, a super-tidy system that allows you to take the the wheel out without totally removing the hub quickening removal and replacement. Ah, but what of the ZeroSLR? And a rare smooth road. We complain when companies offer bikes with tubeless wheels without tubeless tires but serving up top-shelf build without an easy way to shed inner tubes feels inexcusable. The ZeroSLR is an exceptionally good performer over broken road surfaces, of which there were many. ins.id = slotId + '-asloaded'; The tread was grippy in loose conditions, but the Shimano wheels are not tubeless compatible. Red paint is among the densest there is. The seatbolt clamp is effective, though Im not sure about the aesthetics. Its certainly very light for a bike with disc brakes, coming in at the UCIs minimum 6.9kg limit. 2008present unless otherwise stated. I just wish the whole setup was tubeless. There are 12 Wilier-Triestinas ZeroSLR models available, with a range of Shimano and SRAM groupsets and Wilier and Fulcrum wheels, costing from 7,700 with Shimano Ultegra Di2 or SRAM Force eTap AXS Disc to 11,100 with Dura-Ace Di2 the model I tested and 11,200 with SRAM Red eTap AXS Disc. Added together, they givean overall weight of8.0kg. Now the company is out to make another big impression in the hot cycling segment of gravel, both with the battery-powered eADVENTURE bikes and the wildly shaped Jena carbon gravel bike. A. Yee / Cyclocross Magazine. Wiliers designers have increased the diameter of the right fork blade, shaving size and weight from the non-braked left-hand blade. This is the Cento10SL, the latest bike to come from Wilier Triestina which, with smooth lines and a bright red paint job, looks fast even when it isnt moving! Terms and conditions of use. Altogether, it feels either like a relatively budget build with a surprisingly high-end drivetrain or top-shelf bike with some cost-cutting measures. The Wilier Cento10SL Disc with a Shimano UltegraDi2 groupset and Wilier NDR 38KC wheels is priced 5,040. You can now search the database by numbers. Sadly, the RD-R8050 derailleur is the SS variant, which maxes out at a 30t cog. The clutch-based RD-RX805 would have a been a better choice for gravel gearing and off-road terrain. For example, if you find a bike for $480 that we have listed at $500, we will offer you to buy it for $432 through BikeRide. Slammed stem racers might seek a negative rise stem to find their aerodynamic sweet spot. Try Compressionless Brake Housing: Mechanical Monday, 2022-2023 UCI Cyclocross World Cup Race Calendar and Schedule, In Review: Bontrager GR1 Team Issue Gravel Tire, Ridden and Reviewed: Canyon Grail CF SLX 8.0 Di2 Gravel Bike. He was easily in phlegm shot. Saddle: Astute Ready to race? Wilier describes the Jena as designed to satisfy any of your needs, whether it is performance on dirt roads and single track, or adventure, exploration, and bikepacking. To that end, there are a plethora of mounts, including two-bolt mounts on the fork legs, lowrider mounts, fender mounts and the standard two bottle mounts inside the main triangle. Control and comfort were both impeccable. Id have preferred a lower bottom gear on the steeper climbs than the 3428 pairing available. The slightly flattened monocoque Zero bar and stem have the Di2 cabling and disc hoses routed through them. The Wilier-Triestina ZeroSLR sees the light of the day for the first time. Find out about our early impressions of Wilier's latest race bike, Best Cycling Website, BikeBiz Awards 2018, in: Hoy: Safety screens could have prevented Matt Wallscrash, in: Shimano Ultegra R8170 Di2 Disc Groupset, in: Police officer borrows bike to chase after fleeing suspect, in: NMotD 807: Maniacal laugh after driver pulls out, in: 2 dead, 3 injured after driver crashes into charity cyclists, in: Commonwealth Games apologises to England tandem team, Naked tandem couple hit by driver in Scotland make it to Lands End, Teenage cyclist to stand trial after pedestrian seriously injured, Near Miss of the Day 807: Driver comes out with maniacal laugh after pulling out on cyclist, Cardiff cul-de-sac residents lose battle to stop house being demolished to make way for cycle path, Anti-LTN protestors stop traffic in Oxford, Shimano 105 Di2 review is on the way, + more tech news from Ritchey, Ribble, Moots, Stolen Goat & more, New York cyclist dies - Woody Allen blamed for the lack of cycle lane, Commonwealth Games organisers apologise to England tandem team fined by UCI for bronze medal protest. window.ezoSTPixelAdd(slotId, 'stat_source_id', 44); Power up steep climbs and the short chainstays are your friend. Wilier says a customer can request a GS cage Ultegra R8050 rear derailleur with a bigger cassette, but I believe that should be the default option for a bike that is described as designed to give you more freedom of choice when you go out for a ride. Its worth noting the Shimano mechanical builds have the same gearing limitations. The bike must be the same color and size, sold in the US and not include the use of a coupon. Brakes: Shimano Ultegra R8000 hydraulic disc, flat mount ins.style.display = 'block'; Really put the hammer down and it absolutely flies with a great sense of efficiency. View our media pack. window.ezoSTPixelAdd(slotId, 'adsensetype', 1); The bar has 1cm of rise, a 5-degree rearward sweep at the tops and a 12-degree flare at the drops. Your subscription will help us to do more. Stamp on the pedals and youll find that the beauty isnt just skin deep thanks to impressive levels of stiffness and a lightweight build. if(ffid == 2){ Here it is with SRAM eTap Red 12-speed. A sculpture to represent northern Italys industrial heritage and Wilier-Triestinas new ZeroSLR, which was designed in the area. Our mission is to bring you all the news thats relevant to you as a cyclist, independent reviews, impartial buying advice and more. Ill admit it. A. Yee / Cyclocross Magazine. The Jena felt comfortable, especially in the drops, unlike many gravel bikes. A. Yee / Cyclocross Magazine. Our build is based around a Shimano Ultegra Di2 groupset, Wiliers own wheels and a smattering of Ritchey components. Its a claim of sorts. If you dont want to subscribe, please turn your ad blocker off. BikeRide finds and shows you the best prices of the bikes you want to buy. Van der Poel and Van Aert Take Road Victories, steel Jaroon + monster cross bike, complete with 3 tires, with a pedal-assist motor at the 2016 UCI Cyclocross World Championships, salden.nl selling Wiler cyclocross bikes pre-equipped with a hidden Vivax motor, Shimano states the medium cage would work fine with something as tight as 11-28t, Mavic Front Wheel Hub Adapter (20mm Boost) - L12982900, Shimano Ultegra R6800 Rear Derailleur Cable Adjusting Unit (Black) - Y5YC98030, Shimano Ultegra Di2 R8170 Hydraulic Disc Brake/Shift Lever Kit (Black) (Left) - IR8170DLF6SC100A, Shimano Ultegra Di2 R8170 Hydraulic Disc Brake/Shift Lever Kit (Black) (Flat M - IR8170DLF6SC100A, Shimano Ultegra Di2 R8170 Hydraulic Disc Brake/Shift Lever Kit (Black) (Right) - IR8170DRRDSC170A, Cannondale p/b CyclocrossWorld Team Ends Its Reign, Toon Aerts Positive Test for Letrozole: What We Know, First Look: Wilier Triestinas New Rave SLR Gravel/All Road Racer, In Review: Cervelo Aspero Race-Oriented Gravel Bike, Ridden and Reviewed: Merlin Sandstone Titanium Gravel Bike, Ridden and Reviewed: Noble GX5 Carbon Gravel Bike, 2022-2023 UCI Cyclocross Race Calendar and Schedule, Looking for an Easy Upgrade? Short chainstays, a moderate head angle and relatively big bottom bracket drop make the bike feel more road bike-like than an adventure or bikepacking rig, with one exception. We also saw salden.nl selling Wiler cyclocross bikes pre-equipped with a hidden Vivax motor. A. Yee / Cyclocross Magazine. The production bike is specd with Vittoria Terreno Zero 37mm tires, which are tubeless-ready, but sadly the Shimano RS170 wheelset is not. North-Italian Vineyards and ominous skies over the edge of the Dolomites. The Dura-Ace Di2-equipped ZeroSLR in front of one of the many rice fields that are near Wilier-Triestinas new facility in Rossano Veneto. Wilier Triestina offers the mechanical Ultegra and 105 builds in both 700c and 650b wheel options. A. Yee / Cyclocross Magazine. A few years ago, it left an oversized impression on us with its steel Jaroon + monster cross bike, complete with 3 tires. You are using a browser that does not support javascript. var pid = 'ca-pub-5120161157803973'; What do you want out of a gravel bike? Id love to build a frameset up with an eTap AXS or GRX group and the parts of my choice to create a dream gravel ride. We use cookies for quick energy and to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. The most accessible bike in the range isthe rim brake model with a Shimano 105 groupset, priced at2,430. The official spec calls for Vittoria 700c x 37mm Terreno Zero rubber. I rode most of the time in Semi-Synchro (S1) mode, meaning the small two cogs were blocked in the small chainring, but the rear derailleur would compensate with each front shift. A sloping top-tube allows for high stand-over and decent seatpole flex. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. Once again, Gaviria finds himself in a race with absolutely no flat ground whatsoever! Shimano RS171 wheels were heavy and were not tubeless-ready. And as with the likes of Giant, Specialized and Trek, Wilier is now bringing in more and more design work in-house from that bar to the newly launched Wilier-branded wheels. The fork is asymmetric to cope with the braking force of the Shimano disc brakes. I followed the wheel-tracks of the man who followed in his wheel-tracks, only a lot more slowly. MSRP: $5499 USD, 4600 Terms of Service apply. Road surfaces were far from perfect, being pitted and gritty. The ZeroSLRs rigid composite spacers can be removed without interfering with the hoses and cables. Cassette: Shimano Ultegra R8000 11-30 Thats a deal-breaker. That bike remains in our review Hall of Fame due to its ride-everything spirit and massive tire volume. With a big front tire, theres a little bit of toe overlap (with a size 45.5 shoe and rearward cleat position). container.appendChild(ins); The Wilier Triestina Jena carbon gravel bike with the Ultegra Di2 build would have been more capable with a GS cage rear derailleur, instead of the stock short cage. Like most sites, this site uses cookies to make it work. Its a promise we stand behind: If you find a lower price on a bike elsewhere, we will sell it to you for 10% less. var alS = 1021 % 1000; The Jenas carbon tubing features Kam Tail aero shaping. We opted to avoid e-bike controversy and picked a Wilier Triestina Jena to review. Thats a lightweight package that shouldnt hold back any gravel racer, even Crusher or Lost and Found contenders. The big reveal! 
A short cage derailleur as the default spec is an unnecessary gearing limitation and prevented the Jena from being my bike of choice for the 2019 Lost and Found gravel race. Wilier also aimed to minimise weight while maximising integration. Its plenty stiff up front and out back, but big bumps arent jarringtheres a hint of compliance in the rear triangle. Stem: Ritchey 4 Axis Comp The medium-size black-and-white model has a claimed 780g frame weight with another 345g for the monocoque fork and 335g for the dedicated one-piece Zero carbon integrated bar. A stable ride for all-day riding and scenery oggling? Road bike groupsets: everything you need to know, Best road bikes: how to choose the right one for you, Shimano Dura-Ace hydraulic disc brakes, 160mm front rotor, 140mm rear, Wilier-Triestina ZeroSLR carbon monocoque, Wilier-Triestina UL T38KT carbon tubular wheels with Ceramic Speed bearings, Wilier-Triestina UL T38KT tubular wheels, CeramicSpeed bearings, 25mm Vittoria Corsa tubular tyres, Selle Italia SLR Boost carbon saddle, Wilier-Triestina UL T38KT tubular wheels, CeramicSpeed bearings, 25mm Vittoria Corsa tyres, ProLogo Dimension 143 saddle, Fulcrum Racing Zero carbon wheels, 25mm Vittoria Corsa clincher tyres, ProLogo Dimension 143 saddle, Wilier-Triestina NDR38KC carbon wheels, 25mm Vittoria Corsa clincher tyres, ProLogo Dimension 143 saddle. the Jena is an athletic example of the gravel bike breed. Dont think that you get a crosser when you order the Jena: it is more a very robust Urban Explorer than a pure off-road rocket. Stiffness levels are impressive, especially around the bottom bracket area which makes sprinting fun, and the Cento10SL almost eggs you on to get out of the saddle and give the pedals a little dig each time you exit a bend or a roundabout. ins.dataset.adClient = pid; 
Its rare I get a chance to ride on tubular tyres (does anybody outside of the pro ranks these days?)
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