You commented on our videos and articles, sent us messages, and asked about it locally. Youve made it to the next level in skiing. Im not sure the Corvus could be my daily driver. If you have to ask about it, atris. On piste, it is noticeable slower edge to edge from the 98mm Mantra. Works well on groomers and off-piste, icy or soft. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. But flex them next to one another and youll begin to understand why they behave very differently on snow. It uses a 108 mm waist width, just 1 mm wider than the Corvus, but it really sets itself apart with camber underfoot, a softer flex, and lighter weight. This is what used to be referred to as Expert until rocker skis came along and let experts go back to over head ski lengths. Powder is likely the most common reason to adjust your ski size, but other specialties such as ski racing, park skiing, and moguls can all skew what size is proper for you. It's on the list, but we haven't gotten on it yet. Mike, Curious whether you picked up the Atris and your experience. Tip rocker lines of the two skis are nearly identical. I'm drawn to it based on the description of a great groomer in the morning while also being a solid mogul ski as the day progresses. I definitely prefer the Atris in all conditions to the Mantra that I skied, I think you would be pleased with its stability. Three great choices! There arent many skis like this on the market with such refined performance for big mountain skiing; the Corvus is an impressive ski. Intermediate: Congratulations! Turns will be slow and steady, and at the end of your time as a beginner, youll be starting to tip your skis to turn rather than pushing yourself to turn with your heels. I remember one of my friends who was a ripping tele-er would always insist on having skis with stiff tails. Birdie is the same ski, just a different graphic. More weight means the skis will feel softer, and shorter. I've also got guardians on it, although I haven't had the chance to do short tours on them yet. If this isnt your M.O., the only data point I can give you is that I am 511, 175 (Dry weight) and felt the 183 made a great all around ski, so with your svelte nature, plus the one time I tried tele-ing I thought turning was hard, I would steer you to the 178. I skied the Camox last week for half a day after a. I'm using Navis freebirds mounted with Frischi Tectons as a touring/ do everything ski although mostly off piste. I thought the Captis was more composed than the Ripstick, which was a bit sad for me because I really wanted to like the Ripstick. Thanks, J.O.! The rule of thumb for skate poles is that they should come between your lip and your nose. Its well-suited for variable conditions for anyone with an off-piste mindset. I truly believe it will make my technique better and take away any sloppy traits Ive taken to, as it quickly punishes you when you do any mistakes. Hi Steve! Didn't get to try the navis although that was the model I was looking at before deciding that the wider atris (which I've bought!) I think you'll love the turning ability of the Vertis. Hope this helped, Im a 58 165 aggressive tele skier (I know, paradox right?). In terms of performance, simply put, its a powder skiers dream. Thats a bold claim, considering what happened to the Titanic, but with its 122 mm waist width, theyre probably right. I have the 15/16 Atris in a 184 and am 80kg. Too short, and you'll find your forearm angled downward. I'd love to get the Atris, but realistically I spend far more time on ice/slush than powder (2 trips a year, early Jan and March). Have fun! SE. Shovels: 8-9 Me, almost 6' and 175lb,I have a good technique, but struggle sometimes when the conditions are getting really difficult: deep wet snow (maybe because a lack of float, breakable crust, .. . In bumped up piste, the only way to go was fast and swallow the bumps, but again, the Corvus was dependable. Im curious how the new full rocker corvus compares with the more stable atris. I bought the Vertis last year. Chairlift Chat is the official blog of Skiessentials.com. greetz A wider, front-rockered version of the old Mantra? Over the past year or two, weve noticed an increasing interest in Black Crows skis. So last day but one of the season and dropped into shop again, this time armed with 320 cash which a Frenchie can never resist. Weathercam how did you find the Camox? Skiers looking for a versatile tool for the whole mountain and those who ski with a more traditional style than newschool-freeride/park-influenced technique. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. I've gone from a 70:30 piste/off piste to a 20:80 on them. I did really like the Head Kore 93. Given the number of emails weve received like this, its clear that a number of people out there are asking the same question about these two all-mountain skis from Black Crows. But given your size and especially if you tend to like to push your skis pretty hard I think youd really want to go with the 189 Atris. Im also looking to put some alpine touring bindings on them and take them skinning from time to time. Hey Jeff, I really enjoy the reviews. If you're looking to spend more time off piste in the coming years then I'd go for Navis or even Atris. Its also easier to ski than the Corvus, and has more freestyle influence as well. The new atris just might hit the spot! Black Crows is a unique ski manufacturer in the sense that all their skis feel a little different. Combine the Corvus flex pattern with its slightly longer amount of traditional camber underfoot and its directional tail, and the 183.3 cm Corvus actually feels much longer than the 184.0 cm Atris. Its another ski that Black Crows athletes gravitate towards for throwing tricks in the backcountry, especially on those super-deep days. If you're holding the right size pole, you'll notice that your elbow forms a perfect 90 degree angle between your bicep and forearm. Or is the Corvus much burlier, high speed, hard charging GS style only leading me to the Atris? Conversely, skiers who are exceptionally light should stick towards to smaller side of the scale, for similar reasons. I also like tree skiing and don't want to give up all the playfulness of my current ski. What are your thoughts between the Metal by J-skis and the 2018 Atris? Nice, can I ask level your at and what terrain you find best to ski on them? COPYRIGHT A360 Media LLC 2022. Very helpful and informative. Im not a tele skier, but I know a few Ski Sizing can be tricky, thanks to a combination of the ever changing ski technology. A quick note on Black Crows skis in general: Oftentimes a brand has a feel or trend that carries across all their skis, or within a given line of skis. I consider the 105-110 mm waist range the optimal width for an everyday ski, fat enough to handle deeper snow, while still being nimble enough for the bumps that develop after a few weeks of getting skunked by the weather. Hiya, I've got the 16/17 Atris at 184, 70kg at 175cm so about the same as you. The boot sole length is the literal length from toe to heel of that boot, measured in millimeters. Fitting cross country skis is different then fitting alpine skis. For trees and bumps, however, for a lighter skier, that's going to be a plus. I ski in Europe, most of the time we are chasing powder but we can encounter all types of snow. In variable, slightly refrozen and tracked out, boot deep powder, I could just ride the line I wanted as long as I stayed forward and aggressive. They were quick and performed well in the bumps, on hard pack. It pushed through anything. I love Black Crow skis. It seems like it is similar to the original Cochise, but with a tighter sidecut. Relatively aggressive skiers who like to ski everything the mountain has to offer. No matter what type of terrain youre skiing, you do it with a playful skiing style. Behind the Heel Piece: 10-9 Nope! Hi all looking at getting some black crows for next season but Im a bit unhappy up or which I should get so I thought Id ask you guys. The Navis and Camox are very close in width, with the Navis just a little wider at 102 mm underfoot. Camox are a similar ski but with more of a hard snow focus. One thing Im noticing is that the tails seem to be washing out in more aggressive tele turns, landing me on my ass occasionally and not building a lot of confidence in the skis. Whats your experience been? It also uses two 120 mm sheets of metal centered around the midsole mark. Going forward I'll be tempted to go narrower, likely Camox but there are some tempting deals to be had on the Orb right now. Any strong opinions there? Thanks for this comparison. Do you have a specific question about a model? Underfoot: 10 SE, Your email address will not be published. Once again, a nice review guys. In this article, well talk about six different skis, all of which are available on SkiEssentials.com. Preference: Finally, theres preference. Out West, where things are a bit more open, its not uncommon to see skiers on skis much taller than themselves. I like to ski advanced terrain, will ski all mountain. Register to become a member today! While it doesnt have the power or vibration damping that metal provides, it has a very stable, balanced feel and playful, energetic attitude. While this isnt a free pass to say screw all that, I know I need 210s!, it is an official recognition that different skiers have different preferences which can easily change the length of ski they purchase. If she's done growing, I think that high 140's range is the place to be, but if you're looking for something to grow into, there's certainly nothing wrong with the Pearl 88 in the 152. This is a truly versatile all-mountain ski. Theres no camber in the Corvus. A lot of competitive big mountain skiers will love the Corvus. It is a popular ski with the black crows team as an all mountain freeride/style ski. If youre truly an expert skier, you probably know it. Almost 5' tall and approx 110lb. On your ski boot, there will be a 3 digit number on the outside or inside heel of one or both of your boots. Turning optional! It used to be that if you extended your arm upwards, you should be able to reach the tips of your skis. My assessment: Im 187cm (62) and weight 85kg (185lb), and I got a great deal on the Corvus 16/17 183cm. Beginner: Chances are youll know if this is you. I will say that the corvus has sketchy-thin edges and that put me off of them almost immediately. SE. Ive skied on World Cup grand slalom skis before and they were the business at speed and holding edges and you had to fight for them to do anything but I wouldnt want to take them on anything that you could even thing of slightly think of calling rough hence why Im looking at the Corvus. I just ordered the Mirus Cor and even with shipping and customs I saved a couple of hundred. Orb seems to be too much ski for me, Hi Niall! Sure, you can ski it at the resort no problem, but its focus is big mountain performance. For help with Nordic Ski sizing, please call us at: (877) 812-6710. Expert: Hands down, youre the best skier on the mountain. Thanks for the replies. Or, would you recommend the newer Blizzard BP88? Great idea, we will put it on the list! Im 65 205lbs and the J-ski only comes in 186 and is slightly narrower. You and Bob do a really good job. We listened, and we are proudly now a Black Crows dealer! Still not the wiser about the 189 atris vs 183 Corvus (stability/playfulness). Then parabolic shapes came along. Rather than snowplow your way down blue squares, youre able to use the shape of your skis to make parabolic or carving turns. I had read on Ross Hewitts site that he saw the Corvus as a new version of the old Mantra, just with tip rocker and 10mm extra under foot. You can still ski it aggressively and the ski feels strong and supportive, but its easy to flick the ski around and release the tail edge too. Lowest I've seen on UK sites is 370 so 350 seems like a bargain @Weathercam! I want something light, playful, and fun that is more for everyday use. I like the extra stability on groomers, and with 102mm waist widths, the extra length allows me to use these skis in light powder on those rare East Coast days. I think the Corvus would probably be a better fit for you. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2021-2022 Blister Winter Buyer's Guide Print Edition. If the number you see has a decimal, then youre probably looking at your Mondo Point size which isnt accurate enough to use when mounting bindings. For others, its a fantastic powder ski thats still fun on low snow days. Who doesn't? Some certainly will, but if off-trail skiing becomes your preference, chances are youve graduated to the next level. If youve looked all over and still cant find your BSL, its also acceptable to measure along the bottom of the boot from the very tip of the toe, to back of the heel- just make sure you measure in Millimeters! Check out whether snowcountry.eu is cheaper for you. Your email address will not be published. Hi Kimberly! Its 88 mm underfoot, or 8.8 cm as Black Crows likes to say, uses long camber with just a bit of tip rocker, and H-shaped metal. Newschoolers has affiliate partnerships so we may receive compensation for some links to products and services. In it, we give reviews of our favorite ski gear, provide information about the latest ski technology, discuss the latest news in the ski industry, and so much more. The Navis can pivot and smear too, but it has a different feel with more rebound than the Camox. ), On snow, the Atris is both forgiving and energetic on everything from hardpack to tracked-up pow, and, in deeper pow its softer shovel provided enough lift for the ski. Despite not using any metal, the Navis feels quite stable at speed and loves linking smooth carving turns. @Cookiandmilk, I thought the Camox was excellent. Required fields are marked *. I have been looking at that, the. Don't hesitate to give us a call at (877) 812-6710 and let us help you. The bad news, is that it can be a bit more difficult to do- but thats why were here. I was chatting to the Black Crows rep at a recent trade show to try and understand the difference between the Freebird range. For skate skiing, poles should be a bit longer. So Ive never skid a ski without camber , never skied real pow either , dont know what to expect from a flat or full rocker ski. The combination of its weight and my weight didn't quite stack up appropriately, and sometimes that happens with skis. As chance has it, Black Crows have updated the Atris slightly, making it sound even more stable, so this new Atris might be just the ski im looking for! Behind the heel piece: 9-8.5 Freestyle-minded big mountain athletes and also just your average skier looking for a super-fun powder ski for their local resort. I have had my current skis longer than I want to admit and am looking at the Captis. So back to the compound and quickly out on the Doug Coombs anniversary skis, Mmmmmm just seen some 2017 184 that I can get for 350. Actually, I thought the grip was better on hard and icy parts of the piste, and that made the Corvus feel even more dependable. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. But it also rewards you when you stay forward and on and if you do, it will be great in challenging conditions. Slowing down to play down the bumps, the Corvus just felt sluggish. The Corvus can do short(ish) turns, but you have to force it. Sometimes you just need to speak to a expert, so if you're still having trouble picking a size, please give us a call at (877) 812-6710. You might even do some switch skiing too or dabble in the terrain park. I'd say if you're not popping 360's or hucking huge cliffs, the Corvus is the way to go. Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! They make some great skis for that, which well get to, but the Orb is designed much more as an all-mountain weapon. It performs great in powder with the wide, rockered tips and tails, but its responsive on firm snow too thanks to that camber underfoot. Im 57 130lbs (55), Hi Julie! That metal allows you to drive a turn quite aggressively, and the ski will make some big sweeping carving turns with its 21 m turn radius, but subtle design elements in its shape allow for playfulness and maneuverability too. It's entirely possible and very common for boots with the same Mondo Point to have different Boot Sole Lengths. Hope that helps! Has anyone got experience on the Orb? I just had to learn to trust it. I ski trees and bumps in Telluride and am curious about your thoughts on the 3 skis. Shame I didn't have the opportunity to test both those models! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Its flat underfoot with low rise, but long tip and tail rocker. They both seem like great options for all mountain powder skiis. This is a great review - hoping for a womens review as well! While youll still need a final adjustment done before you can ski, providing us with your boot sole length is absolutely crucial if youd like us to send your skis pre-mounted with your bindings. While there isnt a single adjective to describe Black Crows skis, wed venture a guess that when most people think of the brand, they think of off-piste terrain, soft snow, or big open lines in Chamonix. Check the charts below to see which size you need. And their prices on bindings are incredible. It's not a mega light setup but fine for tours of a few hours and great on the descent. The Atris feels like a more versatile, playful, and approachable ski compared to the Corvus. Between the 88, 93, 100, 104, 110, and 115, they all have varying performance, but they all have a very similar feel and build. For classic or touring poles, the correct size pole should reach your armpit. Again, thanks for posting this much awaited comparison :). While we had the skis in our 2020 Ski Test, unfortunately our shipment of skis was delayed somewhere between France and Stowe, VT, and we were unable to include them in our 2020 Ski Comparison series. The Atris then has a deeper tail rocker line than the Corvus, but the more pronounced difference is that the Atris has far more tail splay 46 mm vs. the Corvus 22 mm.
Update: we are now also getting confirmation that a 188 cm model will be available in the Corvus and Corvus Freebird. I personally found it handles everything well from quick piste skiing, chopped up stuff and powder. This gives the skier a lot of options, and were here to help pick out what might be right for you. Hi, Weight is fine, are you thinking they are heavy ? The sport where you strap two boards to your feet and point them down the mountain. You let us know about that too, and as promised, were providing you with a special Black Crows comparison! Myself? The good news is that the all around quality of skis is increasing, making it more possible than ever to find a ski that fits your specific style and preferences. Is there an updated version of this comparison in the works? This is the number that our ski techs will use to mount your bindings. I was in the middle of demoing 90 mm all mountain skis when the ski season in Colorado was closed. While the old Mantra can be pushed hard, it is also forgiving and lets you ride from the backseat or however you end up. I size up. would suit me better. It has much more of a freestyle/freeride feel than a ski like the Orb, and more than the Navis that were going to talk about next as well. Slower edge to edge than the Orb, and not the same torsional stiffness, but what you lose in frontside prowess, it more than makes up for in playfulness and fun-factor for certain skiers. This version of the Atris is slightly stiffer than the current iteration and has a slightly tighter radius - 18m rather than 20m. So quick and energetic! Use: This is a question thats most relevant to advanced or expert skiers: Where are you skiing? I love the Mantras stability and ability to cut through the crud, while its also quite quick edge to edge. This isnt your dads powder ski, unless your dads super cool, in which case go for it. But without advertising revenue, we can't keep making this site awesome. For example, East Coast skiers may have visions of skiing wide open powder fields, but the reality is that 9/10 theyll have to navigate tight trees before finding their 100 yard straight shot of glory. ps I also posted a comment on your youtube channel, Hello -- would love to hear your thoughts on the Black Crows Women's Captis Birdie vs. Black Crows Camox Jr. and what size would you recommend? Heck, you could probably even ski blindfolded and with your hands tied behind your back. Completely flat skis are not for someone that isn't specifically loking for its characteristics. Have fun! Would love to hear your take. In these hard times, I want to have something to look forward to next season .. Anything else i can suggest with the characteristics you want would be too heavy for any enjoyable touring setup. These arent to replace my everyday skis I have a pair of k2 poachers which Ill be using for every day stuff, I want something with a bit more of an edge to it for some steeper stuff though and do some bigger drops with a bit more stiffness. That's okay. It sounds like you're looking for a narrower ski however. I am leaning towards atris or navis. This is kind of the same idea. Have you gotten the 2019 Corvus? We havent been able to get on the updated Atris, but were working on that for next season in order to compare the two. Of course if you don't have ski poles to try this out on, you can always use the chart below. This is for my 14 year old daughter. I went with the factory recommended mount point which is surprisingly center/up the ski compared to what Im used to (K2 Coombacks and Sidestashes). Hand flexing both skis, we would categorize them like this: Tips: 7 Its probably too much game on but it is a great teacher! This guide is for Alpine Skis. The Corvus loves making big turns at speed in off-piste terrain. Finding your Boot Sole Length (BSL) is easy. Looking for Some Guidance? Keep in mind that there shouldn't be a decimal (ex. Weve seen similar metal applications in other skis recently, and the idea is to deliver power and stability along the edge, but with less weight than a full sheet of metal. I had/have a lot of fun on them, but my soul's are missing some float and stability. I've changed from a heavier ski/ Marker tour binding set up so they feel light to me. 5'11", 165 lbs, pretty aggressive skier but also chasing 3 kids around the mountain so like something I can play on as well. or would the Atris disappoint compared to the confidence inspiring stability of the old Mantra? Speculations? The mondo point size is the generic boot size that every boot maker uses it. In most cases, this is the right call, but skiers should be geo-conscious before buying more than they can handle. On the positive side, the Corvus gives more back the more I push it, and it also lets me stay forward in pretty much any conditions. The nice thing about sizing ski poles is that it's relatively straight foreword. Is the Corvus this ski? Was looking for a wider ski in advance of my trip in March to Copper. It also has a whopping 26 m turn radius and a moderate flex profile. Thanks for the shootout. Well, maybe not, but you get my point. I reached out to black crows and they confirmed they will be adding a 188 to the mix. Instead of fitting the ski by height, the skis that we carry are fit by weight. With the Corvus, I can stay over the skis and forward in any conditions. Youre that good at skiing. Love the Captis! Ski the steeper terrain under the lifts mainly. Take a look at the chart below, and if you have any trouble figuring out your size range, scroll past the cart to where we provide more information regarding these categories. I always though the Mantra was good in that respect, but the Corvus is much burlier and more secure in those conditions. Its turn shapes and styles feel more traditional than the Camox. These are my first powder ski's, I hope that meanwhile my skills are improved ;-). The Camox Jr will have a good, playful, energetic feel while the Captis will float well, just like the Black Pearl. The Corvus review was previously published. We're looking for your Mondo Point size, and the conversion is easy! Beginner skiers are classified as people who have never ever skied, right up to those just starting to dabble in Intermediate trails. Advanced: This might be one of the hardest groups to identify. The Captis, even at my size, was smooth and stable and incredibly quick. The ski's will be mounted with kingpins. I have animas and they are comicallly wide for most of what I do (although great for before work tours on pow days). Black diamond, double black diamond, centuple black diamond, it doesnt even matter. Tails: 8-7, If those numbers dont look radically different, well clarify by pointing out that the tips of the Atris are much softer than the Corvus. With the Kore, I actually found the 99 to be my favorite, while I couldn't quite get a good handle on the 93. I'd say 164 is the length in that ski. Not to gatekeep, but folks that would enjoy a corvus would know what they were looking for in the ski. I wanted to hear what people thought between the two tho since Im case people hated the Corvus for whatever reason, they wont be a daily driver but something when I want to really push myself. The Navis will arc carving turns through choppy snow conditions, and when youre skidding or pivoting turns it does so in a very rhythmic way. Get a ranger 102 fr. The 97 mm width and 20 m turn radius feels tremendously versatile, however, a skier with a playful mindset will enjoy taking the Camox literally anywhere on the mountain. I havent had the pleasure of skiing the Navis, but as I understand it, the other models are wider / narrower versions of the Atris, while the Corvus stands on its own. Just a heads up, next years order forms have a 188 Corvus. Tails: 8.5, Tips: 5-6 Back bowls, powder (when I can find it), trees!, steeps, bumps, basically anything. Other hints that you're looking at the Mondo Point and not the BSL would be if it looks something like "270/275" or if the number is found on the bottom of the boot. The Navis wants to hold on to a turn more than the Camox does, which lets you release your tail edge with ease. I am same weight/hight as you. Thomas, Mike, Underfoot: 9 I would venture to guess that the Atris will be more playful than the Corvus at any length. I demoed Corvus and Atris, the atriss are super fun and peppy, almost too soft for the occasional groomer. They are very similar and feel that way on snow despite the full camber profile of the Corvus. Rip some carving turns on groomers and maneuver through trees without needing to switch skis. (A pure Corvus review would also be good). Chances are if youre the type of skier who typically skis with a ski-mentor or a friend whos job it is to get you down the mountain. If the pole is too long, then your forearm will be angled slightly up.
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