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Weigh the repair down: First place a sheet of plastic over the repair area. They do and have been making a domestic product like you speak of , it's called Apple Ply , it comes in a 9 ply 1/2" and 13 ply 3/4" and a 5 ply 1/4" . I never buy plywood from HD for one thing ( I use a local supplier). HD and Lowes give you a good price and good convenience, so don't expect quality. Mix just enough to cover the repair job. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Epoxy is more flexible, so it will resist delamination caused by flexion better. produces today?! A few years ago I noticed that in the Boston area HD plywood prices for un-exotic veneers like paint-grade birch/maple or red oak weren't any bargain (and were even often higher) than anyone else. For the bulk of their customers, that means lowering prices, even if it means lowering quality standards. Some people are satisfied with the finish that they are able to achieve by simply filling the indentation with epoxy and sanding it. Plywood with extensive moisture damage must be cut out and replaced with sound plywood. Get complete site access to video workshops, digital plans library, online archive, and more, plus the print magazine. The exceptions would be for plywood that is exposed to extreme heat (which melts the glue) or quite a bit of wetting (which may dissolve the glue or may promote decay) after manufacturinga rare event in furniture and cabinets. Place a wide strip of painter's tape around all sides of the exposed area. I am afraid that the glue will seep out and the clamps will be stuck to the artwork, is there any way to prevent that? Recently I went into Lowe's and asked where they had their MDF. I will do my best to buy Hammer a few nails into the groove where its buckled. Once that is done, apply the lemon oil to restore luster. Just for kicks next time ask them if they guarantee the plywood before you buy it . one week, but can't find it at their stores the next week.I can't say enough negative things about each of them. Decorative paneling and tile boards can accent a space in your home, and can easily be installed with a construction adhesive. Secure repairs smaller than 6 square inches with noncorrosive galvanized staples. Bubbles form in plywood when there is a localized failure of the adhesive used to attach the layers of veneer together. because we are convinced that this is they way it is I guess we wouldn't pay for that kind of quality either? "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look. Without a vent to release excess moisture, the air becomes trapped. supplying quality goods and service. I found some nice HD ply from Pebble Creek, rock solid material. Make the layer slightly higher than the surrounding wood. I don't blame anyone for making nozzle and get at best one season out of it before The guy answered, "What's MDF?". Your killing me. Prime Directives from the Plywood Borg. UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month. Any recommendations on the type of glue and paint? Sorry to jump in, your post reminded me of a sign a friend had in his shop. I do My 2 cents:I freely admit that both Home Depot and Lowes both have excellent, liberal return policies. believe that they look at us a "meat". That usually stopped to questions and the pressure about why the price goes up when the schedule is compressed or expectations of quality rise.As a society (not necessarily as individuals), we have definitely given up on quality in favor of price, sometimes in a huge way. If I'm building a run of the mill shed or kids play set in the backyard I most certainly will find what I need their. If the extra nails hold it flat, countersink them and fill the surface with a premixed wood putty. You can't blame them for employing extremely successful marketing and selling strategies. Also,How do you stop plywood delamination? Then place a sheet of plywood -- cut at least 6 inches wider than the repair on all sides -- over the plastic. Rather, we need to be ready to repair plywood that has been damaged, especially when it has been damaged in a critical area. Once that works, you will need to sand down any unsmooth parts of the cab, and then a little bondo fill if necessary (try to not use any but you'll most likely need some). It said "Price", "Quality" "Speed" Pick two. If you have delamination going back into the ply for three inches, I doubt that it is marine grade plywood. For the most part, I stick to "real" hardware stores and lumber yards where I actually like to shop. Now I need to go I find HD caters to more construction type work and very little in the way of cabinetery. We are to Likewise,What causes plywood to delaminate? The consumer has given up their To get the job done, we recommend using LIQUID NAILS Heavy Duty Construction Adhesive (LN-903). If the fibers are swollen and warped, indicating water damage, do not proceed with an epoxy fix. Gene Wengert, aka The Wood Doctor, troubleshoots wood related problems, and explores lumber and veneer qualities and performance, species by species, in Wood Explorer, inside FDMC's Knowledge Center. Not sure - might be a Vid question, 6y "why don't American manufacturers make Baltic or Finnish type plywood", Columbia Forest Products does: http://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/products/prodeuro.aspx. So don't go their expecting to by cabinet hardware or cabinet quality plywood for that matter. Replace the laminate surface. get. we will be assured that we do get what we pay for.We WILL go to HD and buy a $10 Gilmore hose Sand the paneling with 100-grit sandpaper until the joint compound is smooth and flush with the paneling. Wengert. The WoodenBoat Forum is sponsored by WoodenBoat Publications, publisher of WoodenBoat magazine. If this is your first visit, be sure to He is extension specialist emeritus at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Or better yet, become a Pinside+ member! I hate to give you a smart-assed answere here, but the first task is finding someone to talk to, then finding someone at HD who knows what the hell delamination is, and thirdly, finding someone who cares. In the long run you'll be happier and our society will be better off! Hi Steve,You stated: "You can't blame them for employing extremely successful You'll find answers to the frequently asked questions as well as basic rules. You will need to register Lift the weights and remove the masking tape after the cure time has elapsed. Because, no matter what you or I think, most of their customers simply don't care very much about product quality, and will keep coming back as long as the prices are low. Buy some Bondo-type auto body filler or wood filler and spread a thin coat on the plywood edges, then sand it smooth. Insert the knife back into the crack. Scan the QR code on the right to jump to the URL this document was printed from. Take care not to move the laminate sheet out of place as you press. I would wick a large bottle of super glue (the good Industrial type)into the areas after they had been positioned horizontally. are secondary to their prime directive. While pulling the otherwise perfect 1995 Bally cabinet out of my car I accidentally scuffed the front bottom over the edge in such a way that the plywood got delaminated. they convincingly advertise "low costs" and have Why does delam occur? Open all of the windows and doors in your work area to ensure adequate ventilation. blame for blind acceptance of mediocrity that the big My issue, little off topic, is with Home Depot's awful internet policy. Stir the epoxy continuously for 90 seconds before moving on to Step 6. You need something soft in between the clamp and the artwork. The attitude the "gentleman" on the line was quite literally "so what?". 15,228 I think your post hit it on the head.Troy. Dave,Your story really erks me! I don't know whether these stores are an anomaly, but my experience is that if you look hard, there's often a little bit of the good stuff back in there, too. Plus tips, advice, and special offers from Fine Woodworking. I applaud people & corporations that make nozzle at $40 and have it last ten years, I'm $60 She has an A.A. in journalism and a B.A. Share your thoughts with us in the comments below. In short, delamination within a plywood panel is seldom, if ever, a problem caused by the furniture manufacturer. I like the one about the couple looking at digital VCR cameras at the big box store , they asked the clerk what can you tell us about this video camera ? Bad batches occur everywhere and especially dragon ply (imports from Asia). At least I got my money back. I'm on the end of this thread. I think it would be great if HD and Lowe's took a gander at the comments about them posted here on Knots -- maybe they'd rethink their supply chain and product line. "That Steve is why I suggested we vote with our I suspect that you will not cure the problem until you replace the panel. Moisture enters into the wood through an unfinished side or through pinholes in the finish and dampens the surface veneer, causing it to expand. get us to keep giving them our money over and 85,300 You just need to decide what your priorities are and go with it. I had 4 sheets of paint-grade maple ply delivered with a couple hundred board-feet of hardwood (free delivery!!!!) time than spend an hour citing some experiences.Vote with your dollars and help keep the little guys Though it is difficult to conceal repairs to veneer or simulated materials, minor scratches and gouges in both sheet and solid-wood paneling can be concealed with a putty stick of matching color. That's not true. http://www.epoxycraft.com/a-solid-re-delamination/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRsNHMvPsX4, Tools / Materials / Techniques / Products. What are normal operating pressures for 410A? Although it sounded like their saw blades were dull, the tear-out on the back side of the board was horrible, up to 1/2 inch in some places. I have very low expectations of Lowe's products, but I was blown away by the low quality of a B&D Workmate I just bought. If you've followed the HD stock recently, and followed all the issues surrounding the departure of the CEO who was to collect millions in some sort of buyout scam, critics point out quickly that customer service went in the dumper under his tutilage and the stockholders told him to take a hike. Kids expect something to be more durable than we do:) I know what you mean about the workmate.Troy, The triangle in building a bicycle has always been. I only buy very generic things A little more for the quality, but I expect to pay more for quality. Then sand the paint. I use HD and Lowes for what their worth. Butler began blogging, editing and writing in 2000. However, mixed among them at both stores is usually a small pile of Columbia Forest Products maple ply that's good stuff, and that I will buy when I need a sheet or two on a weekend and my hardwood supplier is closed. Anyway, has anyone else had horrible plywood from the Depot? Additionally, high humidity levels can lead to other issues like mold. In-depth articles, up-close photography, and detailed illustrations. Place bricks, concrete blocks or other items over the repair. The art comes in building up the missing paint areas to be level and then matching the paint. given week. theplywood.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com, amazon.co.uk, amazon.ca, The Ultimate Guide to Sealing Laminate Floors, Install a Combination Boiler/Water Heater, Exterior Walls Construction: The Start-to-Finish Guide, The Uses of and Challenges in Cutting Formica, The Ultimate Guide to DIY Birdhouse Design, Aquarium Cabinetry: A DIY Guide to Custom Aquarium Stands, The Ultimate Guide to Building a Bat House, The Ultimate Guide to Building a Portable Generator Enclosure, How to Remove and Replace Your Load Bearing Wall, Drying Wood in the Oven: The Ultimate How-To Guide, How to Cut a Groove or Channel on Wood Without a Router. convinced us over time that it is "OK" to to buy that desire to THINK "Hmmm.if I buy one good quality They care very much about their customers. Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors. // Leaf Group, Resin Lab: Mixing Instructions for Epoxy Systems. 19,150 dollars by spending them with the little guy that I had rarely had problems returning stuff - other than the long wait in line. When not busy learning about homes and appliances she's sharing that knowledge. Shrewd negotiations and well planned marketing Keep them in place for the duration of the cure time recommended for the epoxy resin. Unfortunately, it will take a long time and lots of convincing to get me back in there. Unbelievable! Repair delaminated plywood with epoxy resin. Having said that, I bought a couple of sheets of Columbia FP maple ply at my hardwood dealer last weekone labeled made in the USA and other labeled made in Canadaand it was worth every penny of the $81/sheet I paid for it. We have created these special content collections organized to give you a deep dive into a range of topics that matter. I loaded the pieces back into the truck and took them back. Install noncorrosive wood screws at each corner of the repair. It was about a two inch deep de-lamination on both sides of the cut piece across about a 1/3 of a 45 inch length. Unfortunately, since I'm a hobbyist, I don't get there that often, Aura is mainly a cabinet shop supplier which I guess is why they carry the Europly.Thanks! It find it is suitable for utilitarian stuff -- shop cabs and such -- but pretty much useless for much else. try really hard to d it right the first time. If we the consumer Finish the repair to match the plywoods original finish. A good glue bond can tolerate many hundreds of pounds of stress per square inch, so failure, even if the panel is slightly mistreated, is normally not likely to happen. Gently clean the panels one at a time by rubbing in the same direction. To me it sounds like a defective product and they take back other defective items , so why not the plywood ? I don't make that kind of money & would Selling/self promotion postings are verboten on the Forum. 1 Seems ya can't get anything that doesn't say Made in China these days. Don't scratch the cab, use something under the clamps (a piece of wood, wrapped in foam or cloth if you wish). Press it down to ensure contact. Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! If a portion of wall paneling has lifted or buckled, you can fix it. Yeah, I was surprised too. get an aspirin.Bill-http://www.franklinwoodwright.com. The layer must not be thick enough to spill over onto the adjacent tape. After drying, the plywood will form into plastic, which will work as a protective layer. The exceptions would be for plywood that is exposed to extreme heat (which melts the glue) or quite a bit of wetting (which may dissolve the glue or may promote decay) after manufacturinga rare event in furniture and cabinets. I don't think they are catering to all folks for all things. Then clamp the hell out of it, with 5,6,7 clamps, however many you need. Furniture for small humans, with big imaginations, ESG: Heres what Marriott and soon everyone else expects from you, How to use expert content to promote your business, Peak Toolworks prsentera de nouveaux produits pour la transformation du bois massif au SIBO 2022, Peak Toolworks to feature new products for solid wood processing at SIBO 2022, Timber Products' particleboard plant 'indefinitely closed' as company assesses site. Paint the epoxy onto the repair area, place the fiberglass cloth on it, sticking it down and then cover it with another layer of epoxy. Gene At the local store they simply shrug and say " thats the price online". They're a supermarket and not a specialty store. A small hard rubber roller will assist in laying peelers down.Saran Wrap or a good poly film can be used between clamped pieces to prevent sticking. Last Updated: 6 days ago Co-authors : 15 Users : 11. Rabbeting a shelf; Strength vs. appearance, Editor's Letter: A new tool with every project. Try really hard to get that to work - if the clamps fail while drying, you will have to fill with bondo and sand.. a LOT. They just don't seem to turn up there like I had hoped. Thanks, it is not deep, less of 1/16" of the top layer, it is easily bent forward and back with a single finger. Protect the adjacent surfaces from the epoxy. )We all complain but we don't DEMAND better quality Lemon oil works well on natural wood, as it doesnt produce too glossy of a finish. 6. You can get a good price, good quality or a good schedule. I had bought three sheets and made two cuts in one of them. Click for full details. I do believe that While plywood is an amazingly strong engineered material, it is not impervious to damage. Wood Workers Supply is very nice to work with and stands behind the material they sell. HD gets very little of my $$ for the same reasons (and more!) Apply additional coats of joint compound, if needed. Major damage, where a piece of plywood is broken pretty much always requires replacement as well. - lol. The interesting thing to me is that China among many other countries will not allow it to be sold there because of the health risks , how bout that . Sign Up for Woodworking Network Newsletters, Get the latest headlines delivered to you daily Subscribe. check out the FAQ. Examine the delaminated wood paneling carefully to identify the outer edges of the delamination. They want their customers to come back again and again, and so they do exactly what it takes to keep them doing so. Certain page elements may have been deliberately hidden. Providing better information on softwood and hardwood. Allow the joint compound to dry. The only reason Lowes exists is to drive HD out of business. Sand just enough to roughen the surface and remove any loose wood fibers and existing adhesive. work & work WELL!What drives me crazy is the mentality of the consumer. I have had a problem with HD plywood delaminating. 14 as consumers. -Jerry (on the verge of being serious.). throwing it away. This can be attributed to moisture in the wood that allows fungi to grow and feed off the starches and sugars present. Thanks It doesn't have a chance even in the mildest of shop settings. In boats and other structures that are subject to water, repairs should be accomplished as soon as possible. Then sand, then paint. I think I really understand the situation now, Enter and You will Assimilated! Go to your local lumberyard and the price may not be as good, their store hours are not as convenient, but almost everytime, their quality will blow the big-boxes away. and paint stores when possible.Both HD & Lowes don't care about their customers - only Paint? Place clamps across the delaminated layers. Every single piece (even the clamping mechanism) is cheap cheap plastic. After prolonged exposure to moist air, the walls, floors, or even the underside of your roof may begin to delaminate. I was cutting it down this morning and I noticed that the sheet had delaminated! With that many plies there is little room for voids . This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, http://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/products/prodeuro.aspx, Making Furniture Out Of Home Depot Dimensionsal Lumber, Old Home - Beautiful Floors - Help Me Avoid Screwing This Up, Editor's Letter: Technology and the future of woodworking. Install noncorrosive wood screws at each corner of the repair. Manufacturers cared about the quality of the products Having said that I have seen plywood purchasedfrom wholesalers and dealersdelaminate. I am afraid that the glue will seep out and the clamps will be stuck to the artwork, is there any way to prevent that? The EPA is the governing body I believe but have read that there are no indoor air standards to follow however take a look at the FEMA / Katrina trailers / homes that have been locked up because of too high of Formaldehyde levels , hmmm. This is after carefully taping off sides and areas that need no glue. Blow the dust away and wipe the bonding surfaces with a soft cloth dipped in mineral spirits. Gene Wengert, The Wood Doctor has been training people in efficient use of wood for 35 years. I haven't bought a sheet of HD plywood since. Wood delamination is caused by a breakdown of the cellular structure of the wood. The first cut had delaminated over half the length and the second cut was almost as bad. Now here's another question, why don't American manufacturers make Baltic or Finnish type plywood (in American sizes of course)? You have to apply this when the surface is wet. Sand just enough to roughen the surface and remove any loose wood fibers and existing adhesive. I cant' tell from the pics how deep those are (looks like not super deep) , but get a ton of wood glue and get it WAY deep into those cracks; use a tiny piece of cardboard to get it way down in there.